Curse

Tyla · Apr 03, 2008, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chronos the Defiler

this has been suggested SO many times it is not even funny, but I have yet to discover why the Anet dev team has not changed expertise to only effect ranger skills.

right now we see rangers that pretty much run every attacker class..

R/W Thumper
R/P Pack Hunter
R/D Escape Scythe
R/A pretty much same as the rest
R/N toucher
I have even seen R/Rt spamming spirits

I just don't understand why it is still like this, it is a stupid mechanic :/

I has better suggestion! ;o

4% energy needed took off Ranger skills.
2% energy needed took off secondary profession skills.

It should solve the fact that Rangers have an extremely powerful condition removal, for 2 energy that removes two conditions.

*does the math*

28% removed off the cost. So I think 5 energy skills will become 4 energy. And that 10 energy skills will become 7 energy. And that 15 energy skills become 11 energy!!

Think about it...no more degenerate builds!! Well, in my opinion anyway, depending on how retarded the person running the build afternerf is.

If it's not a strong enough nerf make it 1%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minime The Shadow

and you could learn not to jump to conculsions?
just because he stated his opinion doesnt mean that a person "c-spaces" their way to fame, u didnt make urself look too clever there.

@Op i agree R/any are appearing a lot, but this is just creativity on peoples part, using mix professions to make other builds, i agree touchers can get a bit annoying and repetative, but there are ways to counter every build.

Creativity now? These gimmicks have been spawning round almost everywhere. And just because there is a counter doesn't mean it's not degenerate, overpowered or whatever. Plus Dan had it right on the C-Spacing to fame thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

If you have problems with R/Ds because you haven't invented blindbots yet, sorry.

I have problems with R/D Escape Scythers because they're degenerate. Degenerate builds should be degenerated. And the recharge on Rending Touch should really be the main priority nerf target for R/D's aswell as Escape ending on hit. A RaO nerf (Disabling all non-Ranger skills on use) should tell all the Thumpers to gtfo.
But this should get all the Rangers playing degenerate shit to bugger off, which is a good thing.

BlackSephir · Apr 03, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39

I can think of other solutions to break R/D other than FUBARing Expertise.

Escape ends if you hit with MELEE attack skill.

Cool, R/D gone, Thumpers don't use Escape, all other bow rangers who are using Escape unaffected.

shru · Apr 03, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Thumpers and pack hunters rely on Beast Mastery not expertise and I've yet to see a decent dagger ranger or spirit spam ranger, so your arguement only holds true for escapeway and and touchers. (both of which are exreamely fragile builds by themselves). Touch rangers are easily taken care of with snares/kiting/targeted pressure, and yes, I know they're a pain for those of you inclined to 1v1, but you have a team for a reason. -_-

Escapeway is currently the only build you could argue with an imbalanced use of expertise and is powerful because of the skills used, not the use of expertise. (yes the spamming of chilling victory and pious assault helps the build, but it would survive with exp not effecting them.) Chilling would go and deep wound would have to be applied more conservatively, but the essence of the build would still remain useable (rending touch, ermite's, crippling victory, escape, lightning reflexes) although not to the spamability they are at now.

I fully agree with the functionality change of escape, and the recharge on rending touch needs to be doubled at the very least, but expertise is not the culprit, and is not in need of a nerf.

Tyla · Apr 03, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

I can think of other solutions to break R/D other than FUBARing Expertise.

Escape ends if you hit with MELEE attack skill.

Cool, R/D gone, Thumpers don't use Escape, all other bow rangers who are using Escape unaffected.

Agreed on Escape ending on melee attacks landing.

But I myself really want to see all this degenerate crap die.

@Rambo' -- That's because Fast Casting isn't as powerful as Expertise. Expertise is one of the strongest energy management sources at the moment, discounting spells on it.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Apr 03, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

honestly i dont see a problem with RaO thumpers, effective yes, but still not worth shooting a whole line to kill 5 builds.

touchers-just laugh and ignore them
Tumpers-Blind, Crip, kill pet, remove stance
R/D SWAY- this can be shot in the foot with one nerf escape
5 energy 15 recharge
for 1-7 seconds you run 33% faster and have a 75% chance to block arrows and melee attacks. This stance ends if you attack and it can not be used if your rez is gone and you are the last one alive on your team. If you try to use this skill you are banned for 700 years from playing ranger cause you just wanna grief<_<

also with the Oathshot spirit spammers.
they are mean.
spirits costing next to nothing plus near constant defense. they will make life living hell for people in RA.

Itokaru · Apr 03, 2008, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

honestly i dont see a problem with RaO thumpers, effective yes, but still not worth shooting a whole line to kill 5 builds.

touchers-just laugh and ignore them
Tumpers-Blind, Crip, kill pet, remove stance
R/D SWAY- this can be shot in the foot with one nerf escape
5 energy 15 recharge
for 1-7 seconds you run 33% faster and have a 75% chance to block arrows and melee attacks. This stance ends if you attack and it can not be used if your rez is gone and you are the last one alive on your team. If you try to use this skill you are banned for 700 years from playing ranger cause you just wanna grief<_<

also with the Oathshot spirit spammers.
they are mean.
spirits costing next to nothing plus near constant defense. they will make life living hell for people in RA.

Uhhh...Fail.
What about the Rangersins that actually have skill and kill the enemy team solo after their team is dead? Like me? Just because someone runs away doesn't mean that they are griefing. It takes alot of tactics to effectively hit and run.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Apr 03, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itokaru

Uhhh...Fail.
What about the Rangersins that actually have skill and kill the enemy team solo after their team is dead? Like me? Just because someone runs away doesn't mean that they are griefing. It takes alot of tactics to effectively hit and run.

ever heard of sarcasm?

also how many people actually know how to do that i ask. Difference between kiting and running is quickly seen. plus the ranger escape dagger users have a real hard time killing if the oppenents have a self heal and they aren't stupid.

Tyla · Apr 03, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itokaru

Uhhh...Fail.
What about the Rangersins that actually have skill and kill the enemy team solo after their team is dead? Like me? Just because someone runs away doesn't mean that they are griefing. It takes alot of tactics to effectively hit and run.

Rangersins, like any other 'Sins require no skill and are degenerate like all these crappy Ranger (Insert other martial weapon) gimmicks.
They should also learn to play Ranger.

Splitisoda · Apr 03, 2008, 08:24 PM // 20:24

/signed...

Finally, you can see rangers use ANY secondary proffesion to an advantage,
/E for conjure
/Mo Mending Touch
/W for IAS, and thumper
/A for dagger skills
/Me for Epidemic
/Rt for Spirit Spamming
/D for Scythe
/N Toucher
/P for Spear/Pet

And if you list counters for all those builds, i can think of a counter for your build like it takes no skill.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Apr 03, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitisoda

/signed...

Finally, you can see rangers use ANY secondary proffesion to an advantage,
/E for conjure
/Mo Mending Touch
/W for IAS, and thumper
/A for dagger skills
/Me for Epidemic
/Rt for Spirit Spamming
/D for Scythe
/N Toucher
/P for Spear/Pet

And if you list counters for all those builds, i can think of a counter for your build like it takes no skill.

?????????
the way your post is typed it sounds as if you are saying that rangers just discovered using secondaries for this stuff.
last i checked this has been going on non stop since the release of proph

Orange Milk · Apr 03, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

R/W - Thumpers are not overpowered, RaO nerf and EW nerf have seen to that.

R/P - is not over powered as a Pack Hunter doesnt do what a Paragon is supposed to do and thats support. So R/P doesn't "do better than a Paragon"

R/A - is just plain stupid ( I loled so hard at "look, I'm a mugger")

R/ Rt - Spirit spamming? - GTFO

R/N - Touchers, lamest form of Ranger in the world, hence I run it in PvE, where things are lame, as for PvP, they are not and never were overpowered and build defeating, I've faced toucher teams countless times in TA and I don't need a single finger to count on how many times I've lost. TOO MANY counters to this to list.

R/D- well blind blot OR Snare Ele OR a necro > R/D, Anti melee hexes or Rigor mortis OR my fav Defile Defenses *wand for 114 dmg* Defile Defenses *wand for 114 dmg* rinse repeat = Dead R/D and a "WTF happened?" in the all chat.

Who ever said Rangers have a "very Powerful" condition remover was wrong, Mending Touch is a Monk skill, Rangers just tend to use it alot, however it's just 5e any class should be able to handle a 5e skill. Besides I'd say Assassins Remedy is a much more powerful Condition remover than mend touch, they can remove up to 9 conditions with one use.

Rangers have been versitle since day one, they were created versitile thats the whole point.

ANYWAY.....

I say we get to the point and get a poll started

On whos kitten Avatar is cuter Kyrein's or The puppeteer's.
It's a complete toss up for me, I just can't decide.

Itokaru · Apr 03, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

ever heard of sarcasm?

also how many people actually know how to do that i ask. Difference between kiting and running is quickly seen. plus the ranger escape dagger users have a real hard time killing if the oppenents have a self heal and they aren't stupid.

I was referring to the part of the quote that I bolded.

In RA and AB, the difference is actually not easily seen. I can't go 10 minutes without being flamed at and bashed for running. Any good Rangersin doesn't rely on stupidity, they rely on the opponents ego. People will usually try to split up and surround a runner and try to get the kills for themselves rather than trying to work together, or even just group together and wait until time runs out. Or they offer to 1v1, which is the stupidest thing one can do versus a Rangersin unless you have blind or anti-melee hexes.

~ Dan ~ · Apr 03, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

R/W - Thumpers are not overpowered, RaO nerf and EW nerf have seen to that.

R/P - is not over powered as a Pack Hunter doesnt do what a Paragon is supposed to do and thats support. So R/P doesn't "do better than a Paragon"

R/N - Touchers TOO MANY counters to this to list.

Counters. Ah. Well that's all well and good, but it doesn't change the fact that these builds take zero skill to be effective.

That is where GW PvP went downhill. These builds need to be killed.

I don't think expertise nerf is the right thing to do, either. But i /signed this as it will destroy many shitty degenerate builds.

If people come up with a better idea, great. I'll /sign them too.

Itokaru · Apr 03, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Rangersins, like any other 'Sins require no skill and are degenerate like all these crappy Ranger (Insert other martial weapon) gimmicks.
They should also learn to play Ranger.

Assassins require just as much skill as any other class, just in different areas. Hit and run Rangersins need to be aware of where the enemies are at all times to avoid being surrounded, or within casting range. They need to know how people will react to their actions so that they can avoid conflict while they heal or recharge.

Tyla · Apr 03, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itokaru

I was referring to the part of the quote that I bolded.

In RA and AB, the difference is actually not easily seen. I can't go 10 minutes without being flamed at and bashed for running. Any good Rangersin doesn't rely on stupidity, they rely on the opponents ego. People will usually try to split up and surround a runner and try to get the kills for themselves rather than trying to work together, or even just group together and wait until time runs out. Or they offer to 1v1, which is the stupidest thing one can do versus a Rangersin unless you have blind or anti-melee hexes.

Any good player doesn't play degenerate builds. Any good player laughs at people who challenge them to a 1v1 or being flamed for 'running'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itokaru

Assassins require just as much skill as any other class, just in different areas. Hit and run Rangersins need to be aware of where the enemies are at all times to avoid being surrounded, or within casting range. They need to know how people will react to their actions so that they can avoid conflict while they heal or recharge.

No they don't. Assassins are a broken and skillless things. Same goes for x/A so-called 'Sins. And anyone needs to know the above. It doesn't stop the majority of degenerate crap being 123456789 roll your head on the keyboard.

Kyrein · Apr 03, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

I say we get to the point and get a poll started

On whos kitten Avatar is cuter Kyrein's or The puppeteer's.
It's a complete toss up for me, I just can't decide.

mine

hands down

cookies ftw

and i'm sick of people saying "nerf xxxxx so people can't run xxxxx build!!!!"

and then saying the people that use it "LEARN TO PLAY NUB!!!"

dear god, GW is made to use TWO professions, not ONE

remove expertise for secondaries and you kill the usefulness of a secondary for rangers

~ Dan ~ · Apr 03, 2008, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrein

and i'm sick of people saying "nerf xxxxx so people can't run xxxxx build!!!!"

and then saying the people that use it "LEARN TO PLAY NUB!!!"

dear god, GW is made to use TWO professions, not ONE

Scrubs use ursan. People call for a nerf. Wtf does that have to do with secondary professions?

Expertise is just an example here as there are degenerate ranger builds that have been tossed into the spotlight. There are plenty of gimmick builds that are not utilizing secondary professions *cough assassin bars*. Don't nerf expertise, find another way to fix things - such as BlackSephir's idea - fine.

But you're basically argueing that it's ok for people to use c-space builds and win. Which is.. stupid.

street peddler · Apr 03, 2008, 08:50 PM // 20:50

only thing that needs to be killed is the garbage running around in HA.

BlackSephir · Apr 03, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitisoda

/signed...

Finally, you can see rangers use ANY secondary proffesion to an advantage,
/E for conjure
/Mo Mending Touch
/W for IAS, and thumper
/A for dagger skills
/Me for Epidemic
/Rt for Spirit Spamming
/D for Scythe
/N Toucher
/P for Spear/Pet

So what? Because the only thing I see is "expertise is useful, it makes Rangers versatile, QQ"

Stormlord Alex · Apr 03, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

I say we get to the point and get a poll started

On whos kitten Avatar is cuter Kyrein's or The puppeteer's.
It's a complete toss up for me, I just can't decide.

Mine is.
Meow.

On-topic - I'm half-tempted to /sign and kill Expertise for non-ranger skills simply because all it ever seems to do is produce degenerate crap.

And, yes - Sway can be countered, blah blah blah and the rest of that shit.
Signet of Ghostly Might could be countered too.

Fact is, escapeway R/Ds and their brethren are silly lame fame-farming builds that ought to be dead. And killing Expertise rather than Escape stops this same parasite from coming back time and again.